Buhanga: Professor Bwenge hari icyintu Nifuzaga kubaza ubushize nabonye twaganiriye cyane nibagirwa kubaza, ariko ngirango byatewe cyane ni uko nakiliye telephone bituma twigira mu bindi twari dukeneye cyane kumenya ngenda nta kubajije ikibazo narimfite. Ubunsanzwe politike niki? Bisobanuye iki?

Bwenge: umbajije ikibazo cyiza ariko kinagoye bitari cyane, ubusanzwe buri gihugu kigira amateka yacyo yihariye, ari nayo atuma ayo mateka avamo politike rusange abantu bagenderaho. Avuga ko politike ar’ibitekerezo bitandukanye by ’abantu bahuriza hamwe bakemeranya kumitekerereze yabo itandukanye uko kwemerana no gukorera hamwe nibyo byubaka igihugu kigatera imbere.

Buhanga: Hanyuma se politike na demokarasi bipfaniki? Bitandukaniyehe? Bikorana gute?

Bwenge: demokarasi bisobanuye kwishyira no kwizana mu bitekerezo nta kuniganwa ijambo, buri wese mu gihugu kigendera ku mategeko cyemera uburenganzira bwa muntu uwifuza wese kuyobora igihugu abisaba abaturage binyuze mu matora rusange maze abaturage kuko ari bo baha akazi abakorera Leta bose burya bahembwa na baturage amashillingi aturutse mu misoro yabo. Ariko bitewe n’ubwoko bw’ubutegetsi bukoreshwa mu bihugu bidahuje amateka, hari aho usanga bakoresha uburyo bwitwa AUTOCRACY hari naho usanga bakoresha ubundi buryo bwiza bwitwa demokarasi.

Urugero ubutegetsi bwa Museveni na Kagame bwitwa AUTOCRACY, bisobanuye ubutegetsi bw’igitugu aho president ari we ufata ibyemezo aho kuba intekoshinga mategeko ihagarariye abaturage kuba aliyo ifata ibyemezo mu izina ry’abaturage. Demokarasi yo ikoreshwa mu bihugu byemera ko abantu bose bangana imbere y’amategeko kandi ko bareshya imbere yamategeko ari nta uruta undi.

Buhanga: hanyuma se amashyaka menshi muri demokarasi akora gute?

Bwenge: amashyaka menshi mu bihugu byemera demokarasi yose akorera abaturage, ahangana mu bitekerezo imbere ya rubanda hanyuma abaturage bagahitamo ufite gahunda nziza zibereye abaturage yatsinda amatora akaba ari we uhabwa umwanya waba uw’umukuru w’igihugu cyangwa governor, member of parliament MP, MCA ni yindi myanya yose maze agakorera abaturage.

Buhanga: None amashyaka ashobora kwemerwa atiyandikishije?

Bwenge: nta bwo amashyaka ashobora kwemerwa mu gihugu atiyandikishije ariko mbere yuko ryemerwa abashaka gushinga ishyaka bararishinga bakaryandikisha bagatanga ibisabwa kuba byuzuye registrar ushinzwe kwandika amashyaka yasanga ryujuje ibisabwa akaryandika akariha ibya ngombwa (certificate of registration) maze ishyaka rigatangira rigakorera kumugaragaro rigategereza igihe cy’amatora rikazajya mu ihiganwa rigahiganwa na yandi asanzwe akorera mu gihugu mu gutanga ibitekerezo byiza byubaka igihugu.

Ariko Buhanga ubanza ushaka kwinjira muri politike kandi wari warambwiye ko wayivuyemo akaba ari nayo mpamvu nagufataga n’inshuti nziza kuko jyewe numva politike narayivuyemo burundu rwose! None ndabona usa naho usigaye uyiraramo cyane ibitekerezo byawe byose bisa naho byasubiye muri politike!

Buhanga: reka daa! Ahubwo hari icyintu nshaka gusobanukirwa neza, kuko hari ibinyoma byinshi twahuye nabyo kubitahura ko ar’ibinyoma bikagorana. None se buriya ishyaka rya RNC ko ritemewe mu gihugu ubwo ryakwitwa ishyaka?

Bwenge: kuba ritari ryemerwa nta bwo biribuza kwitwa ishyaka, rishobora kudakorera mu gihugu kuko ritari ryemerwa, ariko kuko ar’abantu bahuje ibitekerezo byabo biba ngombwa ko bagira izina (political organization) bahuriyemo kugirango basabe igihugu kuba bakora politike yabo imbere mu gihugu batayikorera hanze.

Buhanga: bigeze basaba gukorera imbere mu gihugu barabangira?

Bwenge: ngirango babonye ayandi mashyaka nka Ingabire Victoire Umuhoza na Bernard Ntaganda barangiwe ko amashyaka yabo yemerwa bibaca intege bituma batajya kwandikisha ishyaka ryabo.

Buhanga: hanyuma se iyo Leta iriho yanze ko amashyaka runaka yemerwa niki gikurikiraho?

Bwenge: kutemerwa kw’amashyaka bigenwa nurukiko rw’ikirenga, rushingiye kumpamvu z’amategeko kuba utarakatiwe igihano kirenze umwaka muri gereza, iyo wakatiwe mu mategeko nta bwo wemererwa gukora politike. Nka Me Ntaganda Bernard yakatiwe igifungo cy’imyaka (4) arayikora arayirangiza, atandukanye na Ingabire n’ubwo yakatiwe ariko yafunguwe ku mbabazi za president ikindi kandi Leta ya Kigali yaciwe amande million (60) kuba yarafunze Ingabire arengana.

Ubusanzwe ibirego bishingiye ku nyungu za politike nta bwo bifatwa ho ukuri, ariko iyo ubutegetsi buriho budahindutse birumvikana neza yuko bukomeza kugupfukirana kugirango utemererwa gukora politike mu gihugu cyawe, kuzageza ubwo butegetsi buhindutse ubugiyeho iyo ari ubw’abantu bemera amahame ya demokarasi urukiko rw’ikirenga rugukuriraho ubwo busembwa uba warashyizweho n’ubutegetsi bw’igitugu.

Buhanga: none se yaba Ntaganda na Ingabire ushobora kubagereranya na Kayumba Nyamwasa wa RNC?

Bwenge: ntabwo wabagereranya kuko Ingabire na Ntaganda bitwa imfungwa za politike kuko bafunzwe bazira politike, naho Kayumba Nyamwasa we yahunze igihugu nta bwo yari yafungwa azira politike. Ikindi kandi umenye ko we ari umusirikare Washatse kuva mu gisirikare ajya muri politike iyo aza guhunga yaravuye mu gisirikare hanyuma agashinga ishyaka cyangwa umutwe wa politike byari kumvikana neza kurushaho, ariko guhunga uri umusirikare ugahindura ukigira umunyepolitike usanga bitanga iyindi shusho itari nziza bizamusaba kutangiza intambara afate igihugu cyangwa habaho imishyikirano kugirango abone kwemerwa kwitwa umunyepolitike.

Buhanga: bravo nemeye ko uri professor rwose icyo nicyo nashakaga kumenya cyane kuko nagenzuye politike ya RNC mbona idasobanutse harimo umwijima mwinshi cyane! Kuko niba atinya gufungwa azira ibitekerezo bye, ubwo se yafasha abaturage gute kandi nawe atinya gufungwa? Ubusanzwe nta bwo umusirikare yakabaye atinya gufungwa cyangwa gupfa, Biragaragara yuko adashobora no gutangiza intambara ngo abe yafata ubutegetsi ahubwo n’umwambaro yiyambitse kugirango amahanga amwite umunyepolitike. Ikindi ubona ko Kaguta Yoweri Museveni asa naho amuhatira kurwana urebye Kayumba Nyamwasa n’umunyabwoba kuko yamenyereye kwibera inyuma agategeka abarwana gusa ariko nta bwo ashobora kujya imbere mu barwana kuko n’igihe cy’intambara yiberaga mu nzego z’iperereza, burya ba maneko ni abanyabwoba cyane nta bwo bajya bakunda kujya imbere kuruhembe.

Sinzi niba wasomye inyandiko yitwa (forbidden stories) yanditswe na VOA ivuga ko iyo nyandiko yanditswe ni binyamakuru bigera kuri (17) byishize hamwe? Ikibazo mbaza biriya binyamakuru byahujwe nande? Byahawe akazi nande ko kwandika ziriya nkuru zicukumbuye? Umbwize ukuri ntumbeshye.

Bwenge: narayisomye halimo Rene Mugenzi, bavugamo Kayumba Nyamwasa, bakavugamo Patrick Karegeya, Judy River, umunyamakuru Gasasira Jean Bosco, ngirango abo nibo nibuka. Honestly, sinavuga ngo RNC nibo bayanditse kuko ubwo bushobozi bwo kwegeranya ibinyamakuru batavuze mu mazina ubanza muri iki gihe batabufite, ariko kandi byashoboka wenda yuko America yaba ariyo yabikoze, cyangwa undi umunyepolitike washakaga political cover up.

Buhanga: What do you mean iyo uvuze ngo undi umunyepolitike washakaga political cover up?

Bwenge: iryo ni isesengura ryanjye kandi burya isesengura ntabwo rifatwaho nk’ukuli niyompamvu ntifuza kuvuga amazina ye kuko nta kimenyetso mbifitiye.

Buhanga: buriya se ubutegetsi buhindutse Kayumba Nyamwasa yafatwa nk’umunyapolitike?

Bwenge: Byaterwa n’ubwoko bw’ubutegetsi bwaba bugiyeho, n’Uburyo bugiyeho kuko bushobora kujyaho biciye mu matora y’umukuru w’igihugu Kagame agatanga ubutegetsi mu mahoro, another way ashobora gukurwaho habayeho intambara ngufiya cyangwa ndende igihe cyose Kayumba Nyamwasa yaba atari mu bakuyeho ubutegetsi bwa RPF bishobora kuzamugora kuko byanze bikunze hajyaho Leta y’inziba cyuho.

Reka rero Buhanga ngusabe icyintu kimwe, rwose ndumva maze kunanirwa gusubiza ibibazo bya RNC na Kayumba Nyamwasa kuko nta bwo bikiri mu murongo wa politike ngenderwaho y’isi. Wowe wabaye muri RNC kundusha, nanjye reka nkubaze ikibazo BEN Rutabana yashimuswe nande? Ni kuki yashimuswe? Nurangiza kunsubiza ibyo bibazo twivugire ibindi tureke politike ya RNC kuko nta bwo ikijyanye n’igihe.

Buhanga: nkurikije ibyo Condo Gervais yatubwiye, ibyo yavugiye kuri radio rya VOA, wumva neza ko RNC na Kayumba Nyamwasa aribo bashimuse komiseri wabo BEN Rutabana. Yabwiye Nshimiyimana Venuste umunyamakuru wa VOA ngo BEN Rutabana bamubonye muri KAMPALA – Uganda alimo kwitemberera, mukanya arongera ati ntabwo bazi aho ari ngo kuko atari yagiye murugendo rwa kazi ka RNC.

Bwenge: Wowe nk’umwanditsi wanakozeho mu nzego z’iperereza ryemewe n’amategeko, wumva ibya RNC bisobanutse ushingiye kuri manifesto yabo ukongera ukareba imikorere yabo ubona bijyanye?

Buhanga: Not at all, very contrary, ntaho bihuriye na gatoya.

Bwenge: None se RNC na RPF wambwira ute ko bifite aho bitandukaniye? Yaba mu mitekerereze no mu mikorere ubona bitandukaniye hehe? Niba Kayumba Nyamwasa wakoranaga na shebuja yaramuhunze cyangwa ari ikinamico bakoze nk’uko bivugwa, hanyuma kandi akongera agashimuta mugenzi we nyuma yo gusimbuka urupfu bavuga ko yasimbutse muri Africa y’Epfo cyangwa yaruguru wowe ubona biliya bintu Kayumba Nyamwasa ari we wakabaye abikora?

Buhanga: imanza zitabera zikazakora ryali? Buriya ko ariyompamvu ubona nkundi ku kubaza ibya RNC kuko niyo nabayemo ngakurikira n’Ubuhanuzi Byarangiye Ubuhanuzi buyinkuyemo kuko ibyo bwavuze byose kuri RNC niko byagenze!!! Buriya impamvu mba nkubaza cyane mba nshaka kurushaho gusobanukirwa ibya RNC nimanza zitabera ubu ibibazo byanjye byose umaze kubisubiza!

Buriya nkubwire professor jyewe nakurikiranye iby’Ubuhanuzi byose byari byaratuvuzweho muri RNC, yewe nabanje no kwanga Ubuhanuzi ndetse n’Umuhanuzi, kuko batubwiraga ko ngo Umuhanuzi arwanya RNC, twajya Church Pastor akatubwira ko ngo Ubuhanuzi buturuka ku mana.

Byaje gutuma ibya RNC mbyihorera ndetse ntangira no kubigendamo gahoro cyane kuko natangiye kubona basa naho bafite ubwoba burya iyo uri umuyobozi ugatangira kugaragaza ubwoba mu byo ukora, burya biba byarangiranye! Nibwo nafashe position yo kwihisha ibyo kujya mu nama za RNC mbivaho kuko natangiye kubona umuvumo utangiye gukora twavumwe n’Umuhanuzi.

Bwenge: ngo umuvumo! Umuvumo se ni manza zitabera ni kihe cyatangiye mbere!?

Buhanga: hhhh ese nta byo uzi najyaga ngirango watangiranye n’Ubuhanuzi, hatangiye umuvumo haza gukurikiraho imanza zitabera usibye ko numvise mu bisobanura Umuhanuzi yatanze ngo byose bikora kimwe gusa aho bitandukaniye umuvumo ushobora gukurwaho uramutse ubisabye ariko imanza zitabera nta bwo zo zishobora gukurwaho kuko Uwiteka aba yarangije guca iteka!

Bwenge: buriya uzanye topic nashakaga ko tuganiraho kandi uyizanye neza cyane, urabizi ko nigisha muri Kaminuza ya King Edward university hano mu Bwongereza, nta bwo nzi byinshi mu Buhanuzi ariko nagiye mbukurikira kenshi mbonye akanya, ariko hari icyintu na kubwira, amahirwe dusa naho tujya gukora umulimo umwe kuko burya kwigisha no kwandika amakuru cyangwa ibitabo byose bijya gusa kuko ari abantu tuba tugezaho ubumenyi mu buryo bunyuranye.

Ehh waiter please bring another round, uhh uziko twaheze mu biganiro ikirahuri cyumye nawe ntiwavuga.

Ubanza ukunda fish cyane! Of cause! The first creature in the world.

Bwenge: Are you sure?

Buhanga: so sure!

Bwenge: igihe kinini kirenze imyaka (2) ngerageza gukora survey regarding God’s justice, ndakubwiza ukuri nasanze ziliya manza zitabera zikora kabisa iyo wahawe files numbers nta bwo gahunda zawe zigenda nkuko ubyifuza usanga hazamo za kidobya bikakuyobera ni bintu maze igihe nkurikirana ku bantu bazihawe ngo ndebe ko byukuri zikora cyangwa ari iterabwoba ry’Ubuhanuzi.

But what I can tell you is that files numbers are very active. 

Icyintu cyanteye ubwoba nasomye mu Buhanuzi, ngo files number ikora nk’uko HIV ikora, uwahawe files number ashobora kukwanduza umuvumo we mu gihe waba ukorana nawe.

Buhanga: niyompamvu ubona nta gishaka kwivanga mu bantu benshi cyane za Churches zaciriweho iteka na ba Pastors n’ubwo bo batabyemera, Usibyeko hariho one Pastor is friend of mine aherutse kumbwira ngo files numbers is real ubwo urumva atazamera?

Bwenge: none se niba isi na bayituye baraciriweho iteka umuntu yakoriki?

Buhanga: Just be who you are, ahasigaye ukore umulimo wawe neza wirinde za rwaserera….

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